human cloning

[miriam_e]

You know, I can't figure out what the big deal is about human cloning. People get their knickers in such a knot about it, but every identical twin on the planet is a clone. It is not like it is unnatural.

"But," those shiny-eyed, anti-cloning fanatics rush to tell me (like it matters) "there will be awful hitler-like people who clone themselves."

Really? I wonder. And some feeble law is going to stop some uber-wealthy nutcase? Like it has stopped so many other things, yeah?

"But," they breathlessly press on, "it would be a travesty of human rights to have these clones raised to be..."

...to be wealthy, powerful people? Oh the poor dears. My heart bleeds for them.
Why the hell are people worried about cloning when there are children starving all over the world?
Are people fucking nuts or something?!?!

Comments

[gigglestheclown.livejournal.com]

No they are not clones. A clone is an exact duplicate. If they (identical twins) were clones than they'd have the same fingerprints, birthmarks etc.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

Identical twins have the same genes as they both come from the same egg. Birthmarks aren't genetically determined, and I seem to recall something about fingerprints not being solely determined by genes either (not sure about that though, I'll have to look it up). If identical twins don't have the same fingerprints then that simply shows that genes don't determine everything, and the same would apply to any other kind of clone too. Identical twins, by definition, are clones. They share the same genes.

Why do you have a problem with this?

[gigglestheclown.livejournal.com]

I don't have a problem with it its just that I'm friends with someone who is an identical twin and he would be a bit offended at being called a clone.
I wasn't intentially trying to annoy you by posting in your journal.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

This relates directly to the original thing I posted. I don't know why people have this awful reaction about clones. The very word evokes negative reactions from people. Why? It is not that clones are unnatural. All identical twins are clones; the majority of aphids are clones; most single celled animals and plants are clones; several species of lizard are entirely populations of clones (there are no males). Clones are completely natural.

I wasn't offended by your post here. I did think your post to lesbian was stupid, but that was the intention wasn't it. It should be surprising to you that I take your comments honestly enough to reply intelligently to them after you damaged your reputation like that.

[gigglestheclown.livejournal.com]

I personally don't give a shit about my Livejournal reputation. But I do thank you for replying to my posts about cloning. I don't really understand why the word clone brings up negative reations. I think the whole thing just makes people uncomfortable due to the media's over-the-top reactions.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

Reputations are more valuable than most people think. Once lost they are extremely hard to regain. Other people's view plays a large part in determining a person's intelligence, resolve, level of satisfaction and wellbeing, and how you see others.

Here is an example of what I mean: Some experiments years ago (which would never get done today) ran intelligence tests on a class of kids, then unknown to the teachers or the kids the experimenters swapped the results so that the smarter kids got the low results and the low-scoring kids got the high results. The experimenters retested the class some time later and found, to their surprise, that the new scores had changed to fit what the teachers thought the previous results were.

There is a lot of evidence to indicate that longevity and freedom from disease correlates well to how people are regarded by those around them.

Nobody should become a slave to other's opinions, but assassinating your reputation can backfire in ways we are just coming to understand.

I think you have hit the nail on the head about why cloning produces such negative reactions. The media. They sensationalise stuff because by scaring and outraging people they can sell stuff. They have given up selling the news and now concentrate on selling fear and propaganda.

[belegdel.livejournal.com]

now concentrate on selling fear and propaganda.

True but that really only enhances existing fears (otherwise the media couldn't prey on them as they do).
I wonder if sci-fi has a hand in the generation of the nascent fear of cloning. Obviously all the sci-fi material about cloning is utter rubbish in terms of scientific fact but they are overwhelmingly negative.

I wonder if that, combined with the tiny level of legitimacy imparted by the very term "science fiction", is the seed that grew into fear of cloning. Often when you quiz people who oppose cloning you end up discovering one of the sci-fi myths about cloning.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

It is mostly in USA and to a lesser extent Britain and Australia that the media so blatantly manipulate people's fears for sales. In other countries, like Canada and many European countries the media mostly report the real news. However I think it is an increasingly common phenomenon in all countries.

When I first moved into my house, way out in the country, I was very happy and relaxed, living here on my own. After a while I was asked by a few people "aren't you scared, living out there by yourself?" and that combined with watching a few scary news items ended up creating fear in me where none previously existed and for a while I felt worried. I soon pulled myself together and ceased watching the propaganda on TV and pointed out to people that cities are far more dangerous. I am no longer scared. My point is that media do create fear rather than simply enhancing it. Fear sells.

There are good science fiction stories that treat cloning as something not to be feared. You may be mistaking Hollywood's version of science fiction for what is true, good, science fiction.

I completely agree with your point about asking people what they fear from cloning, that they tend to give a (Hollywood) science fiction answer. The "news" media and Hollywood have become almost inseparable. I think this has poisoned them both and they're making society sick.