here I sit...

[miriam_e]

Here I sit in darkened room, facing a glowing screen and surrounded by trance thud and sparkle... aaaah, beautiful music energises the core of my being. Here I sit, groping my way toward a glorious future borne on the backs of those geniuses who labor for love of knowledge... better beings than I, by far. Here I sit trying to help in some small way... here in my darkened room before a glowing portal immersed in cascades of trance... beautiful music. Here I sit, illuminating, painfully and slowly, corners of the wondrous architecture, intricate and self-evolving under clever hands guided by many scintillating minds. Surely it is not far now... will I see? Will I feel? Will I live? and live... and live... and live? and grow... and learn... and love? Will this be the time? So many ones, better than I, have passed before, the gift denied. Will we be the ones who hold it? Born to us in the hands of those shining ones -- those who labor for love of knowledge. Here I sit in dark comfort, daylight outside, but here I sit in my enfolding burrow... words dribble from crawling cursor. Here I sit. I wait... building and learning while I wait, hoping I have time. Having tasted the pale shadow of godlike realities in the worlds I visit while I sit here... here I sit wanting more... the hunger... the ache... appalled at the thought that it could be snatched away at the last moment... like so many before... many before... better people than I. They could not even hope. At least I can have the hope. So here I sit in my warm dark room, hoping, bathed in music and the glow from the strange window before me -- window to many worlds. Here I sit... hoping that soon I'll not be here, nor sitting, not in light or dark... hoping to be a god among gods with endless worlds of my own creating... with endless time for my living... endless knowledge for my exploring... Here I sit... learning... creating... feeling... hoping... waiting... Here I sit

Comments

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

:) yep. It is both up and down. I am disappointed at how long it is taking to get to where I want to be and scared at how I could lose the chance of getting there at all, but still deriving pleasure from the journey.

"There" is, of course, immortality. Many of us want it. Some choose to do wonderful things to live on in other's memories; some choose the path of power to make their mark upon history; some create breathtaking artworks; some have children; some poor souls place their faith in an imagined god. But for the first time in history we are closing in on actual immortality. I am not talking about biological repair. Computer technology is advancing fast enough that in another few decades we can expect to be able to model our minds inside computers. Those computers won't be much like current computers. They will be massively parallel, clockless, and run on little energy. They'll probably be hybrid in structure, possibly using quantum computing for much of their work. Once scanned into such a computer the biological person can die but their thought patterns, memories, desires, and creativity live on... if not forever, at least for some centuries... perhaps for millenia, inside infinite virtual universes.

But it is all happening a little slower than I hoped, and the war trumpets are not helping at all. The story I am writing is having birthing problems, and money is spreading less and less far.

So... you see? Up and down. :)

(By the way, "Doppelgangland" and "Superstar" are getting posted today.)

Re:

[patchworkkid.livejournal.com]

Once scanned into such a computer the biological person can die but their thought patterns, memories, desires, and creativity live on... if not forever, at least for some centuries... perhaps for millenia, inside infinite virtual universes.

But the original person will still be dead as a doornail. All that will survive will be a simulacrum. Good for everyone but the original, nonetheless.


The story I am writing is having birthing problems, and money is spreading less and less far.

Fiction story? For any publication in particular?


(By the way, "Doppelgangland" and "Superstar" are getting posted today.)

Woohoo! Thanks. :)

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

But the original person will still be dead as a doornail. All that will survive will be a simulacrum. Good for everyone but the original, nonetheless.

What is "original"? And is the concept useful or important?
Are you the same person as the creature carrying your name a decade ago? How about a year ago? How about yesterday? Between today and yesterday your consiousness ceased to be for a while overnight (several times, actually). What continuity is there but the memory? Your body renews itself over time, replacing the proteins that make up your cells. The cells that comprise Cam of today are not the same ones that were him some time back. Many have died and been replaced. Your entire structure has undergone revision.

The "original" is an illusion maintained by our conscious memory, which itself undergoes constant change. We feel like one continuous entity when in fact we have a stuttering existence broken every night, and often doing things for reasons we are not even conscious of.

The version of you that awakens to inhabit a virtual universe inside a computer is real. It has the memories, emotions, loves, hates that you had when you were scanned into it. If there is a biological version of you at the same time that continues to live for some years more before dying, then all that can be said is that it is another you. In both cases, the purely electronic one, and the biological one, the original version is no more. What remains are two constantly changing descendants.

Fiction story? For any publication in particular?

Yep, fiction story. For myself. It will be freely available. I intend to turn it into a VR "movie" -- a story which is acted out inside VR, so that the audience can wander about inside the story... like stepping inside a film. It is early days yet. Such stuff will become a multibillion dollar industry in the near future. I expect it will completely replace the film industry. Already the computer games industry makes more money than the movie industry. Computer games are a major step towards VR fiction.

Re:

[patchworkkid.livejournal.com]

What is "original"? And is the concept useful or important?

My point is that 'me', in the sense of the breathing person sitting here writing this to you, will undergo 'pain' and 'death' and cease to be. 'I' will no longer be able to experience life. There will be an electronic engram of the persona that developed inside this brainpan, but I, myself, will no longer be here, living life. Which is my point. Just because my silicon twin is out there, doesn't mean I get to get drunk and party.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

...'me', in the sense of the breathing person sitting here...

I am not just playing with semantics when I say that the belief we have of a continuous 'me' is illusory. We really have no one 'me'. At any particular time we have the accumulated memories of our past, to give us the impression of a single me. That 'single' person changes constantly, morphing and breaking throughout life.

The person who wakes up from sleep is no more and no less you than the person who wakes up in a virtual world. The thread of consciousness was broken by sleep. Two new yous begin, as you have begun anew each day.

Perhaps my next post explains it better.

Re:

[patchworkkid.livejournal.com]

That's a really intriguing concept. But is that like saying the Cameron that was here yesterday is dead and I'm just a clone with his memories? A clone that will also die the next time I pass out?

Those are the kinds of thoughts that could drive you bats.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

Well, not exactly dead. Death is such a final word. But seeing ourselves as not the simple unbroken line that we are accustomed to makes a lot of things easier to understand. The movie "The 6th Day" explored some of these concepts of self quite nicely. Did you see it?

Re:

[patchworkkid.livejournal.com]

Ah, no. I didn't make the connection between a Schwarzenegger movie and depth. ;)

You say death is such a final word - and maybe I'm being a bit thick - but unless the stop/start is reasonably decisive and final, how can it be meaningful? If that makes sense.

I guess I'm having trouble conceptualising the moment at which the 'line' breaks. I mean really breaks, rather than just a personality going into stasis for a few hours. Screensaver mode, if you will.

Maybe I'm getting hung up on semantics. I didnt get much sleep last night...

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

Heheheh :)
Scwartzenegger is not the best of actors... in fact adjectives relating him to wood and corn come to mind. But the story is good. It is peppered with nice throwaway concepts too, and in my opinion is well worth seeing.

Ummm... check your mail Friday. :)

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

You don't really need a particular break time. Just seeing objectively that consciousness is not a single unbroken line is all that is required. Contrast that with the subjective perception of a single continuous existence, and the stage is set.

I have an interesting day, then mulling over the day's exploits I go to sleep. During the night my consciousness disappears for a while every 20 minutes or so. The next day 2 Miriams wake up; one inside a virtual world, and the other in the bed where she went to sleep. They are both me. As they wake they both remember what a cool day yesterday was. They both have the same illusion of an unbroken consciousness stretching back into the past, but they are both wrong... and at the same time both are correct. My own subjective consciousness is what is important, so to say that one is the "real" me and the other merely a clone is meaningless. Subjectively they are both really me.

I'm aware that this is a weird concept and how it seems absurdly at odds with first thoughts. I have been familiar with this question for about the last 37 years so it seems fairly easy to me, but I remember how puzzling and insoluble it was when I first found it.

[melpomeine.livejournal.com]

"I am not just playing with semantics when I say that the belief we have of a continuous 'me' is illusory. We really have no one 'me'. At any particular time we have the accumulated memories of our past, to give us the impression of a single me. That 'single' person changes constantly, morphing and breaking throughout life."

That is so true, clipped so nicely.

Re:

[patchworkkid.livejournal.com]

Incidentally...

Between today and yesterday your consiousness ceased to be for a while overnight (several times, actually).

What do you mean by 'ceased'?


Such stuff will become a multibillion dollar industry in the near future. I expect it will completely replace the film industry.

I'm not sure about that. For starters I think there'll always be a market for a 'passive' story experience. We tell each other stories constantly, daily, endlessly. People like being taken on a ride, shown something, receiving something that informs their understanding of life. All this you could do interactively, sure, but not in the same way. It'd be a fundamentally different kind of story experience.


Already the computer games industry makes more money than the movie industry.

Sure, but to be fair it costs less to make a game than a major film, and it costs $100 a ticket.

Ah, I think I just proved your point. :)


Computer games are a major step towards VR fiction.

For sure. Hell, they already are VR fiction in most respects.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

What do you mean by 'ceased'?

Each night we go through cycles about every 20 minutes of surfacing to consciousness, then dipping down to unconsciousness, then into dream-state, and back up to consciousness. Your consciousness ceases many times every night. The feeling of continuity of self is an illusion. We deceive ourselves because we are always speaking from the point of view of someone with an apparently continuous memory. Naturally it doesn't look discontinuous because we judge from the memory itself.

...there'll always be a market for a 'passive' story experience...

Definitely! The cool thing about VR fiction is that it can be interactive or not as you choose. You get to choose... and you can choose at any time during the show. A little while back I wrote a piece to explain VR fiction to someone who had no understanding of the potential of computers. Here is a bit of it:

You are seated in front of a screen. You have selected the latest episode of your favorite new series. You settle back to watch it with the remote control in hand. You could use a mouse and keyboard, or a joystick, but you prefer the remote because it is easy to use while relaxing in your armchair. You are watching this episode a second time as you are curious about one of the characters in the story. You are going to direct the "camera" to follow this character instead of settling for the standard view. You can look at the scene from any position by pressing the up and down arrows to move the viewpoint forward and back, or the left and right arrows to turn the viewpoint left or right, just as if you were moving a mobile camera inside the story. But of course there is no actual camera. The story is in a virtual world — a moving, computer-generated, 2D image of an imaginary 3D world — and you are controlling your viewpoint within it. Last time you watched this episode you felt lazy and just let the director's camera show you the story. It was like the old days of vegeing out and watching a movie on video... except at one point in the story when you moved the "camera" over to a suspicious shape in the shadows. You suspect the writer put the shady character in there as a joke, knowing that many people could not resist the lure. Smiling, you settle back to enjoy yourself for the next 20 minutes.

What I didn't mention is that you can have multiple directors' cameras that you can attach yourself to, and can jump into various characters to view things passively through their eyes if wished. There are few limits in what can be done. This is the beauty of it. The user can wander freely or elect to bind to preset viewpoints, and they can do this repeatedly and at any stage in the story.

Hell, [computer games] already are VR fiction in most respects

Kinda... they explore one or two aspects of VR fiction, but it is actually an incredibly diverse story form. You can make single or multiple thread, linear or nonlinear, deterministic or nondeterministic stories. But these are not simple categories; each of these is a spectrum of possibilities.

(more in the next reply... won't let me post it all in one go)

Re:

[patchworkkid.livejournal.com]

Wow, the VR stuff sounds pretty cool. Actually, it sounds like a lot of that stuff is already on the way to being employed with DVD. You already get a whole lot of menus containing extra stuff, but alternate camera angles and whatnot are already being used in *ahem* porn.

It also sounds like it'll multiply the writer's workload by several orders of magnitude.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

One of the problems of trying to do this with conventional film is that 2 camera angles doubles the size of the files. Multiple preset viewpoints can be implemented in VR with almost no increase in filesize. It is better than that though. In VR the user is free to wander at will and even record their own viewpoints.

In fact I expect this will be a source of outlet for aficionados of VR shows. I can imagine that people will post online their own viewpoint camera angles of particular shows, and that some particularly skilled people will become so good at it that they will become recognised as especially brilliant directors, eventually gaining employment in future productions.

This discussion has prompted me to post online most of the piece from which I cut that example paragraph earlier about sitting back and watching a VR story.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

oops... didn't give the link: http://werple.net.au/~miriam/VR-fiction2.html