atheists and agnostics

[miriam_e]

I'm convinced that if we are to survive the next several decades we must outgrow the stupidity that is religion. It poses the greatest threat to our children's survival. Each religious group hates each other with an unshakeable faith that they are the one true path. All religions justify murder and repression in the name of their illusory beliefs.

We need more non-religious heroes and heroines in books and films. More atheists and agnostics should stand up and make themselves known as honorable people ...before we become the next targets of the religious crazies.

Comments

[sleepyaardvark.livejournal.com]

Thanks for taking the time to write all this out. Its definitely helpful in organizing my thoughts. To me, one of the strongest arguments is where you said:

If you find that you are feeling uncomfortably emotional about questioning your religion then that is a very good indicator that it is not truth but simply infection by a dangerous meme. A real god would welcome honest examination, but no religion does.

To me, it only makes sense that to comprehend the creation of any god, you have to start by looking around you at what IS. And what we CAN see is that is no matter how humans got here (I'm not going to go as far as you and say there's no god, because I am firmly in the agnostic as opposed to atheist camp), what differentiates us from every other living organism is the ability to think and reason at a very high level. Paradoxically, western religion does recognize that humans are apart from other organisms but they fail to acknowledge the most basic thing--thinking and reasoning--that makes this so. After all, what else have we got? The cheetah is far faster, many creatures are much tougher, many creatures are far more beautiful, hell, even a simple sponge is more durable than a human being. So what's left if not the mind?

We have the ability to reason and to be curious and inquisitive so it seems to me to logically follow that IF we were in fact created by a god, then it stands to reason that he wanted us to use these abilities. And what is it that science does except to try to understand the natural world--God's creation if you will--around us? And yet it is the scientists and intellectuals that get persecuted by religious fundamentalists as if we are some kind of threat.

Which brings us to the political dimension. Paradoxically, thinking people are considered a threat to God, and yet this God is said to be all-knowing and all-powerful. OK, I can accept the all-knowing and all-powerful part, because the universe is filled with powerful forces that humanity can't even come close to imagining, yet alone being able to replicate in any way. But how is a person thinking and being inquisitive going to be any kind of threat to a god with power over such forces as the nuclear fusion in the interior of a star or the gravity of a black hole or even the comparatively puny destructive force of an ordinary tornado?

And the short answer is, we are no threat to any god that might exist at all. But what we ARE a threat to is the political power of the clergy. As you said, that power depends on control and that control is mostly accomplished through irrationality, fear, and guilt. In short, its basically, as you so accurately put it, "brainwashing". It has far more to do with psychology and politics than about spirituality. Teaching people to think, to question, to reason is empowering the individual and giving them control over their own lives--and again, using basic psychology, people who feel in control of their own lives have no need to resort to superstitution and cults.

I've had the fortune to know quite a few people in my life who are, as I call them (only half-jokingly), "recovering Christians". And there's something about these people that just makes me smile. It is difficult to explain, but its this overwhelming newfound sense of freedom and curiousity about the world around them. Perhaps it is much like people who finally break free of abusive relationships, finally being able to be free of guilt and fear and to enjoy their lives.

Again, thanks for taking the time to write all this out. You have a lot of good ideas and I enjoy hearing them.