the "crime" of trusting islamic men

[miriam_e]

Go to Amnesty International's action list, scroll down to "The Girl from al-Qatif" and take the link to embarrass the Saudi government into at least trying to fix their medieval culture.

A 19-year-old woman, known only as "The Girl from al-Qatif," has been sentenced to 200 lashes and a 6-month prison term for being alone in private with a member of the opposite sex who was not an immediate family member. Call on the Saudi authorities to repeal this sentence of flogging.

Why is it that a girl has to cover herself from head to toe and heavily circumscribe her every action, living in constant fear of inflaming the desire of the men around her, while a woman can stroll down the main street of Brisbane wearing nothing but a skimpy bikini and expect to come to no harm? Either men in the West are paragons of virtue, or men in islamic society have become so deeply corrupted by their absolute power over women that it has turned them into vile creatures.

What men in islamic (and fundamentalist christian and hindu) society don't realise is that their control and power over women debases and corrupts them. Yes, the women lose out badly, being abused and dehumanised, but the men lose too; they become monsters and lose the chance to a great future accompanied by women as equals.

Comments

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

Social relativism doesn't really make sense. It is absolutely for everyone to judge when injustices occur. I'm not speaking from the point of view of a Westerner when I talk about islamic society being stunted and insane. From any detached perspective where you consider human rights as a basis for society then islamic society is totally screwed. When I say human rights, I mean the utter basics: do to others how you'd have them do to you.

Western society still has a lot of growing up to do too. There is still no equal pay for equal work, and if you have the unfortunate accident of having poor parents then your potential is largely discarded. If you don't look pretty then ditto. If you have an unusual sexual orientation then, again, ditto. The less pale is your skin then, ditto.

Women walk around scantily clad all the time here on the Sunshine Coast. From what I've seen few are leered at, I've never heard lewd comments made to them.

Women in islamic society are crushed. They tend to accept it because there is no other option and slaves often grow to love their chains, but the chains and slavery are still wrong. In islamic society women and girls' births are not even recorded and their deaths (and murders) likewise. They are not equal to men in any respect at all. They have literally one third the rights -- the koran explicitly states that, and it is enforced by law.

"Girls Gone Wild culture" is a strange term to use when women are still routinely advised not to go certain places because they expose themselves to harm from men -- that is all women have to be victimised and circumscribe their actions because men can take responsibility for their actions.

This is hardly a "Girls Gone Wild culture". Out of the fortune 500 companies I think about half a dozen have women in top executive positions. Interestingly those ones are at the top of the fortune 500. Including women is by far the better way forward by any measure you want to use. Have you ever wondered why islamic society is so impoverished when they have such vast riches? Could it be that they waste 50% of their greatest resources: human minds. What society can do more than limp along under those circumstances?

It is absolutely for all of us to judge when people commit injustices against others, here in the West and in islamic society, hindu society, or anywhere. If we don't then we cop out of the future. All it requires for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

[belegdel.livejournal.com]

From what I've seen few are leered at

Then I'd suggest the onlookers have simply gotten more circumspect. Anecdotal evidence abounds that "leering" is practically an organised sport on the Gold and Sunshine coasts.

"Girls Gone Wild culture"

I actually took Greylock's reference more in terms of our supposedly more liberated culture (with respect to fememine issues) still being rife with objectification, exploitation and denegration. Along the lines of "how about we sort ourselves out before we start trying to sort others out".

because men can't take responsibility for their actions.

I take exception to that generalisation. Some people can't take responsibility for their actions.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

The Sunshine Coast seems to be a pretty civilised place. I'm sure leering still happens. I don't see a lot wrong with that. Lewd comments made to women are another thing though and I haven't heard of women here who've had a problem with that (though I'm sure it occurs from time to time too). But the point I'm making really is that women of many different age groups feel perfectly comfortable walking around exposing large amounts of flesh here. I think that's pretty good evidence that men in islamic culture have become deeply corrupted by their absolute power over women. A while back I read an amazing article by a woman who grew up in moslem culture and ended up in the Netherlands. She was terrified at being in the midst of a depraved Western culture. It was only after some of her friends pointed out the reality -- that women are able to walk around in safety, compared with the great danger to them in her home culture -- that she realised how topsy-turvy are islamic morals.

I still don't get the Girls Gone Wild reference.
I absolutely think we should continue to improve our own culture, but if we have to wait till we achieve perfection before we help people anywhere else then... well, that would hardly be perfection would it? We need to be generous and helpful to others as well as fixing our internal problems. It isn't just one OR the other.

Yes, you're right. I should have said "some". My bad. I think the "men" still stands though, because I don't remember the last time I heard of a woman being raped or assaulted by another woman. Yes, I'm sure it happens, but it is sufficiently rare that "men" is a reasonable word to use in addressing women's major concerns. I should mention that in my experience, the vast majority of Western men are responsible and mature.