an exercise in frustration

[miriam_e]

I just got off the phone from my old girlfriend, Margaret, and felt almost like tearing my hair out. Often, talking to her is an exercise in extreme frustration. Don't get me wrong; I'll always love her. But Jeez! Trying to lift her point of view is a sysiphean task. No matter what is said or what happens she generally sees the bad side of it. It is rare for her to have an unqualified positive view of anything.

I like to consider myself the luckiest person in the world. This is not because I am luckier or better off than anyone else, and it isn't that bad things don't happen to me. I am lucky because I can see the positive side of the most unfortunate thing. I try to fill my viewpoint with the good aspects of the world. I'm fully conscious of the monstrous things around us all, and the dangers at large, and the traps laying in wait for the unwary, but I'm able to note these thing without letting them fill my view of the world. I try to help the good around me loom large so that it lifts my mind to maximum heights of happiness.

When Margaret concentrates on the gloom then it obscures her view of everything else. But I don't seem to be able to get this through to her.

When she moans about how little money she has, I point out that she gets far more than I do, and though I am below the poverty line in Australia I am filthy rich compared to 90% of the people in the world.

When she complains about the cost of maintaining her home, I remind her that I wish I owned a home like she does, but even my humble living space is paradise compared to most of the poor people on the planet.

When she is exasperated at the high cost of food, I point out that I manage fine on basically vegetables and a bit of bread and milk and eggs costing something like $30 per week, but that I eat like royalty compared to the 16 million people who die of starvation each year.

But all this just angers her. How can I get it through to her that she is actually an incredibly lucky person who makes herself miserable by looking at her world through a broken window?

Comments

[dorjejaguar.livejournal.com]

You can't get it through to her if she doesn't want you to.
I know it's hard to see someone apparently avoidably miserable.

I've a dear friend who recently I had to have a talk with and tell her she had influence over her happiness and that I wasn't gonna keep propping her up, cause for me it was depressing, boring and exhausting. I encouraged her to do something bout her life and her happiness.
She heard me. And she has. That was lovely.
But it's not always that way.

Your friend may be wedded to her discontent. It really isn't your job to remove it or even try. It angers her very likely because she wants something other from you. Likely your sympathy instead. And that's not your job to give either.

Believe me I understand the frustration for you. Is like banging one's head against a wall, no?
I find it's easier to let go of the endeavor cause our happiness is our own business and it's easier to take care of it when not trying to fix another's.

Take care you. :)

[amberite2112.livejournal.com]

you may not have helped her, but you may have helped me, half the world away.
too many details to go into. in brief, i have fallen into her way of being, always depressed. some is actual mental depression, and some is situational. i am much closer to your financial situation, and have been feeling hopeless of late.
just, thank you for giving me a clearer perspective. i'll try to make it last.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

It really is like banging my head against the wall, yes. But I'll keep doing it, because one day I might be able to get through to her and then it will be worth it.

The frustration doesn't stay with me for long. I just look out the window (today it is one of those wonderful, cozy, drizzly, rainy days that makes me feel like cuddling up in bed with a book and a big grin) or get back to what I was doing (since I woke at about 4am today I've been teaching myself "awk", a computer language designed for editing text, and there's nothing I enjoy more than feeding my brain).

There is so much cool stuff around me... around us all! One day I'll convince Margaret that her life can be very cool... if she wants it to be. At the moment she seems caught in a trap of getting some kind of perverse satisfaction from being unhappy. Poor kid.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad. Just remember that everything has a positive side. If we can find that then it gives us a way out of just about any predicament. And there are always many ways for our situation to be far, far worse than it is, no matter how bad things are, which gives a starting point for considering how well off we really are.

One thing I like to do is consider my lifestyle contrasted with someone just a few lifetimes ago. Viewed in that light I live a life filled with inconceivable magic. I know and understand things that were denied even to kings and queens. I have libraries of books and music and artwork at my fingertips. The greatest encyclopedia in history -- Wikipedia -- is freely available to me any time I want. I suffer no nutritional deficiencies because of these magical little multivitamin tablets that I supplement a delicious diet of yummy veges with each day. I never want for safe drinking water. I can have a hot shower whenever I want. When it gets cold I have plenty of warm clothes I can don, and I live alone so when it gets hot I can shed all my clothes and, if need be, switch on a fan (though the place I live in doesn't go through terrible extremes of either).

This is not to say I never get depressed; occasionally I do, but when I can see all these cool things around me the depression never lasts for long. And even depression can be useful if you know how to leverage it. For me it provides a different approach for drawing and makes me even slower than I normally am, and very methodical. Some of my best artwork has been done on those very rare days. So even that has its upside. :)

[dorjejaguar.livejournal.com]

"But I'll keep doing it, because one day I might be able to get through to her and then it will be worth it."

You believe that?
Has it not occurred to you that the attention you give her *because she chooses this perspective* is rewarding it?
It may be a change of habit but it could be more effective to give attention to any more positive attitudes or thoughts she displays and choose not to give attention to all the rest.
When we tell people "Nah uh, it's not like that" often they hold to the opposite position just cause they'd rather believe themselves to be "right" and aren't able to see the potential in considering they may be mistaken.

I'm not surprised the frustration doesn't stay with you long. That's a nice feature of your perspective. :)
I understand you care about her.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

I'm careful not to reward her complaints, and this is one of the main reasons she gets frustrated with me -- I won't feed it. I turn her complaints around to show her the positive side of it all and well off she still is, which makes her angry at me, and in turn frustrates me. :)

What you say about people taking up the opposite stand out of pure contrariness is very true. I'm very aware that she emphatically rejects many of my suggestions simply because I've suggested them, and I'm still struggling with how to get around that. It is necessary that I make those suggestions because I know she is unlikely to think of them on her own, but my suggesting them means she deliberately won't consider them. [sigh] It puts me in an impossible position. I can't stand by and watch her go down the plug-hole (suicide is a genuine danger), but my attempts to help are rejected out of hand.

All that said though, I know that she does appreciate that I do my best to help and uplift her, and she's thanked me for it on occasion. I promised years ago that I would always help her in any way I could... and I will. I just have to wrack my brains to find a way to get good ideas past her perimeter defenses. :)

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

I just re-read what you said about your tactic with your friend and I thought about it some more. This sounds like something worth trying. Margaret won't know that I'll be making an empty threat in saying that I can't keep propping her up, but it just might undercut her constant stream of depressing twaddle about how bad her life is. She may be forced to talk about the positive aspects of her world. In short it may achieve more than all the gentle encouragement I've tried over the years.

Thanks for the pointer. I'm going to give it a shot. I just have to work out a way to say it that has the right impact.

[cpolk.livejournal.com]

i just - I would simply become disdainful. i do not have that kind of patience.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

:) I would probably have given up long ago, except that she is a genuinely good person, and she has helped me in the past when I needed it, and I long ago promised I'd always be there for her.

[greylock.livejournal.com]

You can't.
Because you can't understand her world.
Your programing parameters are just different. Not more narrow, or wider, but different.

[dorjejaguar.livejournal.com]

:)
You know I thought about that, what I was going to say for a long time. I worried.
I personally knew I couldn't keep doing it anymore and I *really* hoped saying so wasn't gonna mean the end of the friendship. In the end it just kinda came up, popped out of me.
There were tears, she was surprised.
See I regard this kind of behaivor as a sort of energy vampirism and I'm not down with being vampirized (even unconsciously). I *want* to help but getting sucked dry isn't helping anyone. It only feeds the hunger.
By not offering to prop her up I threw her back on her own resources. I certainly pointed out that she has them first. There was a bit there where even having acknowledged it, she slipped back in her ways complaining about problem problem problem. I showed her again. She noticed.
It's a deep habit. Other ones have to be created.

" It is necessary that I make those suggestions because I know she is unlikely to think of them on her own, but my suggesting them means she deliberately won't consider them. "

I don't believe it is necessary. As you say it doesn't work. And if you assume she can't think of them then really that puts you in the position of always always having to help her. Which you've promised you will do. Quite a promise that.
Sounds to me that to learn a different way she has to need to. Right now she's getting a lot of attention from playing helpless. Many people interpret being rescued as love or the closest they feel they can get to it. The attention really is potent food but it solves nothing. Essentially what's needed to truly help is one's own love. You can point her to that, that she has the means to be kind to herself.

In the case of my friend when she started doing her "woe is me" thing I was pretty quiet about it for a bit, not stepping in to fix it. I can't even remember what I said so much that started the conversation.
I do know I told her she has more resources than anyone to change her life and effect her happiness than anyone. We all do for ourselves. For ourselves we are primely located to make change. :)

Of course it may be the only change your friend needs is one of perspective. Doesn't sound like she actually needs a change of circumstance but it is helpful for anyone to know they have the resources to choose happiness.
Here's a good book on that subject actually: http://books.google.com/books?id=XWNwewQBikoC&dq=how+we+choose+to+be+happy&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=uigOS8rMHpHSsQPO_sDHDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=true

You can stop propping her up and still be of help. It takes real attention to what one is choosing to give attention to. If you run in to fix it then you'll be reinforcing the concept that that's needed.

It may be questions like "what are you excited about?" "have you plans to change that ?" may be helpful.
Yes though I think letting her know you don't wanta talk about the depressing stuff you've been talking about may be a big motivator.
People are rarely told they're having a depressing effect, or they're boring the pants off of someone. Vanity alone may motivate a person to change if they've been informed of that. And yes, there are ways to do that with lots of "I" statements. :)

I wish you all the luck in the world.
It's very kind of you to want to help.

[dorjejaguar.livejournal.com]

"I'm careful not to reward her complaints, and this is one of the main reasons she gets frustrated with me -- I won't feed it. I turn her complaints around to show her the positive side of it all and well off she still is, which makes her angry at me, and in turn frustrates me. :)"

I get that but it's still attention for complaining. And her getting angry is more drama, more "reason" for her to feel sorry for herself. For all your suggestions she can tell herself you just don't understand, that your unsympathetic blah blah blah. Best not to mess with it. Even glazing over can be better than paying attention to it.
If you only give her attention for behaivor that will lead to her happiness that can make a difference.
If you lean into the problem you can break it more, if you lean into the solutions you can lend them forward momentum. Does that make sense?

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

It does. Starting today I've begun carefully working on this. I'm experimenting with simply not commenting if she complains, and directly noting and complimenting her when she makes positive statements.

I told her that when she endlessly complains she sounds like another person we both know who never voices anything but complaints. He is a nice enough person but utterly draining to deal with. I told her that if she doesn't watch out she'll become like him. I think that made a bit of an impact.

I'll keep reinforcing this. Maybe she'll end up becoming once again the old friend that I knew years ago. That would be wonderful.

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

I don't know... it is remarkable what our minds are capable of. I think this discussion here may have shown me a way to help her back to being a happier person. That would certainly be worth all the effort many times over.

[dorjejaguar.livejournal.com]

Cool. :)
That would be wonderful.

perhaps you should change your approach to the problem

[xxclovergrrlxx.livejournal.com]

it is very likely that her perspective is both cause and effect of suffering. true, by focusing on the negative she is causing herself to suffer more. but i think it can also be true that when we are unhappy, we tend to focus on the negative.

what is she really trying to say? what is she really upset with? where does the root of her suffering actually lie?
everything you mention revolves around money. does she come from a very affluent family in which she might be seen as "poor"? is her work unstable? is she living beyond her means and as a result, is in debt? another symptom of unhappiness is that people will try to fill that void with anything that seems to offer an answer. often, material possessions fall under this category and debt may ensue. those who have no concept of "what is enough" will almost always suffer. "i just need that 32" plasma screen, then my living room will be good enough for guests... i just need a new car, then i will feel secure... if i can just pay off my house, then i will feel happy..."
you view her earnings as "enough", but what if she never will? we have seen time and time again that extremely rich people will kill themselves or suffer deep depression. money will not buy you happiness if your perspective on life is skewed. a particular favorite saying of mine is, "joy at last! to know that there is no happiness in the world!" or in other words, once you stop thinking that happiness exists outside of you... that you need anything at all to make you happy... "everyone else is so happy, why can't i be happy all the time?" ....then you can actually be content where you are.

you are certainly right that you are lucky you have the perspective you do. :) true happiness, that is, to be content with your place in the world, can be very hard to come by and even harder to learn.

you obviously know her better than i do. but in my experience, these types of people tend to be truly unhappy. that is to say, it's not really about the electric bill.

Re: perhaps you should change your approach to the problem

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

Everything you have said here is right on the mark. Regarding your questions:
She comes from a well-off "working class" family. She also achieved a lot by working hard, though now she is on a pension, struggling to live within her income because she spends more than she can afford. She is unfortunately very into material possessions and superficial displays of affluence.

I want her to be happier and conserve what remains of her money because she will likely need it further down the track -- she places so much importance on money that it would destroy her not to have any at all. I keep trying to get her to increase her self-confidence by going out and meeting people, developing her interests, and doing things. Her greatest enemy has always boredom, and she is extremely easily bored. (It astounds me that people can be bored in this age!) Each time I try to encourage any of these things she reacts angrily, accusing me of pestering her, but I am truly not. I meekly suggest things, often in tangential ways. Sometimes I even plead with her. It has gotten so that asking about the weather evokes anger because that is interpreted as me suggesting that she go for a walk, even though she herself is the first to admit that she needs to exercise -- she has eaten herself into a dangerous weight problem and early stage diabetes.

I still don't know anymore how to handle that, but at least I've decided to try cutting short or ignoring the habitual complaining -- it just isn't healthy. I will encourage and try to enhance positive moves.

I have to admit I'm really scared for her.

[futurelegend.livejournal.com]

Sounds like the reasons given may just be cover for a deeper unhappiness. Perhaps she is seeking acknowledgement of and compassion for her hurt, even if she doesn't know or cannot talk about what the real cause is?

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

She always has some people around her who sympathise with things that have gone wrong for her in the past (though that number seems to be decreasing). I have been one of those who has always been there to hear her. The thing is though, that we all have things that go wrong. There are plenty of things that I could complain about in my life, but to do so would magnify them and tend to crowd the good things out of my view. She is fond of magnifying not only her own problems, but focussing unduly on others' too. She has tried a number of times to go into what amount to rather cruel analyses of my life to tell me how I've fucked up or how other people around me have let me down, but has learned that I won't listen to those. I'm fully aware of the bad things in my life, but by preferring to concentrate on the positive aspects I am able to get a lot of pleasure out of the world around me. She steadfastly refuses to look at the good side, or do anything to enhance it (developing her interests, doing a little exercise, going out and meeting people and making friends, etc). Instead, this perverse gratification in dwelling on the problems in her life is ruining it all for her. The truly absurd thing is that she actually has a pretty good life -- or would have if she could just notice.

[futurelegend.livejournal.com]

to go into what amount to rather cruel analyses of my life to tell me how I've fucked up or how other people around me have let me down

Yes, that sort of thing is deeply hurtful and unacceptable.

Maybe she needs some practice at thinking about the bright side... What would you think of a bargaining arrangement in which you say that you're only going to listen to something negative from her, after she's said something positive that's happened to her or about the state of the world - and interrupt and refuse to listen unless these rules are adhered to?

[miriam-e.livejournal.com]

That is a very good idea. I've been having difficulty with my new strategy of ignoring complaints and only responding to the good things, because she happily waffles on regardless of me swapping the topic back to more pleasant things. The beauty of your suggestion is I'm able to make it explicit, telling her exactly what I'm doing in a way that has clear rules. She is good with solid frameworks.

Well thought! It might just work! I'll give it a shot. Thank you.